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Monday, May 26, 2008

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George Arndt

It's impossible to have freedom without offending anyone. At the very least, the Muslms aren't trying to tell people what they can wear or what art they can display in their own home.


I can't say I hate everything about Islam. It's not without a few noble aspects. Historically, many Muslims have contributed to astronomy and medicine and few other areas. But, it's attitudes towards nudity, sexuality, the female body and freedom of expression are completely oppressive and medieval.

Rogier

There is beauty in Islam, George, I agree, and it doesn't hurt to remember that. I did so here a few years ago and still feel the same way:
http://www.bakelblog.com/nobodys_business/2004/12/beauty_versus_t.html

Rimfax

The Islam-ain't-so-bad theme of the past two comments just begs for a Godwin violation.

Rogier

Islam as a "divine" inspiration to artists over the centuries is not the problem (on the contrary). The problem is political Islam, a movement that is out to make converts by any means necessary, and to impose its medieval morals on those not yet cowed enough to join.

Jimbo

@Rogier: Much of your reasoning based on your message from December 29, 2004 doesn't hold water, as much as I appreciate your intentions. Things like female genital mutilation and honour killings in parts of the Islamic world are cultural rather than religious. Both these examples are part of traditions much older than Islam, and therefore cannot be blamed (entirely) on Islam. But one should acknowledge that by the same token, much of so-called "Islamic art" is cultural, and only occasionally influenced by the religion (e.g. depictions of living beings being prohibited). You are also aware that the Hagia Sophia was built as patriarchal basilica, and Byzantine architecture has heavily influenced Ottoman architecture (e.g. Blue Mosque).

@George: much of the scientific contributions you mention are specifically Persian. Equating Islam and Persian culture is highly inaccurate, even if one is to some extent part of the other.

Windypundit

Technically, taken by itself, I don't have a problem with the behavior of the town. The *government* was doing something that offended people, people complained, and the *government* stopped doing that.

A similar argument applies to the bank: They are businesses responding to the tastes of their customers or other people they deal with.

The construction site is almost the same thing, but with the important difference that the contractor is sacrificing the comfort of his workers to accomodate the absurd demands of the muslim community. I don't deny them the right to do that, but we are certainly free to judge them for it.

Dave

I have a problem with the fact that all these steps are being taken to appease one group and especially since that group moved in and started making demands. The town and the bank both caved to one group when probably no one else complained. I would tell them the same thing I tell yanks that move down south then bitch about everything: If things were so great where you were why are you down here bothering me? Go home to a culture you understand and stop trying to ruin ours.

As far as the construction workers go It is totally unacceptable that they should have to change the way they dress to make these people or anyone else happy so long as they are not breaking any laws. Pretty soon they will be dictating what actors wear on TV or demanding that checkout girls wear no makeup or short skirts.

The Dutch attitude has gone way beyond their noted tolerance and now borders on appeasement. It will not serve future generations of Dutchmen well.

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