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Friday, July 18, 2008

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» Voting Conundrums from Coolidge Corner
Much if not all of the libertarian blogosphere, with the exception of paleos and the LP establishment, seems to be leaning Obama. This morning I read Rogier van Bakel's (an acerbic defender of liberty who I particularly enjoy) explanation for [Read More]

Comments

Phil Nelson

85% of my sentiments on the matter. Well said.

Phelps

AFAIK, McCain hasn't put up fascist style emblems, encouraged fascist iconography (see above), and called for the creation of a Brownshirt corps.

It's funny -- I didn't think the Dems could bring out a candidate that could top McCain for fascist tendencies, but then along came Obama.

(This is the brownshirt corps:)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s

Windypundit

I think you're misinterpreting McCain's 100-years remark (I believe his point was that it doesn't matter how long we have troops there if they're not getting killed) but other than that, I'm right there with you. McCain just oozes National Greatness, and I'm afraid all us little people with our little dreams will get lost in his grand illusions. Obama says similar things in his own way, but I don't think he can pull it off.

Rogier

Not following, Phelps. Is the 'fascist iconography' the Time cover, featuring a photo where he's shot slightly from below? I don't know about Time's photographers, but when *I* photograph people in the studio or on location, *I* determine where I put the camera and how I have them pose. Even if Obama did influence how he was photographed, I find this shot no more disconcerting than thousands of images I've seen shot from the same vantage point, and they weren't all of Pinochet or Mussolini. It's a look and a pose favored by many rock stars, sports celebrities, and captains of industry. Pick up a few copies of Businessweek and Sports Illustrated and you'll see what I mean.

Now, the video: did you, by any chance, wonder why that snippet is so short? It's because it was taken from a 25-minute speech on volunteering, which you can view and listen to here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df2p6867_pw

The context makes it clear that Obama is calling for Americorps / Peace Corps volunteers to make the world a more secure place by doing good and being ambassadors that spread a more positive image of America abroad. I don't how enthused I can get about about that, but how Obama's sentiment is the equivalent of 'brownshirts' is beyond me. Been listening to Rush Limbaugh a little much lately?

The accusation's a very, very low blow, even if you don't like the guy.

Luke

As much as I'd like to agree with you that Obama is the best choice, I just can't agree with that. I was brought up in a republican household. We're not rich, either, my family just enjoys the ideas of small government, privacy, and low taxes. I don't care how much Obama would do good for this country. If he's even possibly against two of our most important amendments, I refuse to give him my vote. You're right, he's big government. Of course he is, he's a democrat.

I'm just wondering when the American people are going to realize that the presidency is small potatoes- people should be paying attention to who they elect to congress and the house of representatives. THEY are the ones who represent us (albeit extremely poorly).

There is no reason why the American people should bow down to a government so much. As Thomas Jefferson said "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty".

Don't get me wrong. McCain makes me cringe, too. At least I hope that if our next president proves to be incompetent, they'll be impeached faster than you can say Richard Nixon.

This country is going to a slow, painful, totalitarian hell. And what's worse is that most people don't care so long as they have their iPods.

Patrick

As much as I disagree with most of Obama's positions, it's going to be him or the protest vote of Bob Barr (for whom I'd never vote if he had a serious chance). McCain, with his Weekly Standard "national greatness" inclinations and his eagerness to regulate political speech, seems to embody not the worst of the right, but almost all of its big government inclinations, whereas with Obama at least one can hope that some of the national security state apparatus of the past 7 years might be rolled back. While I doubt that Obama is going to do anything about repealing unnecessary federal laws on obscenity and drug policy, at least he'll neglect them and perhaps starve the Justice Department organs responsible for enforcing them.

Martin Owens

Looking over the choices this November, and the probable course of the nation no matter who gets elected, I can only say I am grateful I have reached the age where I can honorably take refuge in drink.

Dave

If I can't bring myself to vote for McCain then I'll just have to sit this one out because I can't vote for Obama. Obama reminds we way yonder to much of another democrat that popped up from nowhere promising change: Jimmy Carter. I believe Mr. Carter to be a truly honest man that believes what he says (more than I can say for Obama) but his 4 years of presidency literally wrecked the economy and made us the laughingstock of the world. In addition to promising too many things to too many people I believe Obama to be both a liar and as racist as any klansmen I've ever known. I'm afraid that his presidency will bring nothing but higher prices, higher taxes and frustration to us all. I think the DNC is pushing him simply because of his appeal (or should I say pandering) to so many yearning for change and think that they will be able to control him once he is elected. I think they will probably be proved wrong.

As a republican (thanks to the afore mentioned Mr. Carter) I could cross over to vote for Hillary Clinton because after 8 years of her husband at least we have some idea of what to expect.

Also don't forget that with Obama you get Michele who I personally believe will be one trainwreck of a first lady cause money can buy lot's of things but class isn't one of them.

Good luck to us all. I think we're going to need it.

billy-jay

Rogier, I honestly don't have an opinion on who is worse between Obama and McCain. I only know that they are both bad enough that I can not vote for either of them.

Fred Mangels

I'll likely be voting for Bob Barr, but there's certainly nothing wrong with not voting at all if you don't feel comfortable with any of the candidates running (and there's more than just two). I find the either/or attitude of Rep vs. Dem only rather troubling.

Ragnar Danneskjöld

Voting is for suckers. Why lend legitimacy to an insanely corrupt and hopeless system? Both of those individuals are certain that they know what is better for your life than you do. Participation in government is CONSENTING to be governed.

Jozef

As much as I'd like to agree that Obama is the better choice, I fear that this year there is no lesser evil to choose from. The main problem I see in comparing the two top candidates is that they are so incomparable. I credit Obama's strategy to show no substance for that; McCain makes mistakes (serious enough for me to dislike him) by talking about his opinions and policies, while Obama is so vague that I can hardly fault him for anything, but I also can't consciously picking without knowing what he stands for.

Timothy

Life would be better if we replaced elections with thunderdome.

Marc J. Randazza

I'm still toying with the idea of writing in Ron Paul or casting a protest vote for Bob Barr.

I did give $1,250 to the Obama campaign, but that was during the primary. I thought that the WORST possible candidate was Hillary Clinton.

Now that she is gone (or is she?), I'm not as passionate about Obama.

But, on election day, I'll likely hold my nose and vote for Obama. I'm truly afraid of what McCain would put on the Supreme Court. Of course, who knows what Obama will put there... but it has to be better than what McCain will stick up there.

Michael Chaney

Rogier, you're misrepresenting the "100 year" quote, and you're smarter than that. He said we might have troops there for 100 years - in case you missed it, we still have troops in Europe and Japan 60 years after WWII. It's hardly the same as saying he "wants" a 100 year war. Nobody, frankly, wants a war, anyway.

I agree that we have a lesser of two evils thing going on here, but I'm not sure that Obama is the lesser. I can say that most of what he stands for, and people that he stands with, are antithetical to libertarianism. I can't say that about McCain, basically replace "most" with "some".

Hittman

I think they're both interesting characters, and would love to have a beer with either of them. But I can't vote for either of them.

Obama is a socialist who loves big government. McCain is a fascist, who loves big government. Given the choice, I'll pick fascism over socialism because people get tired if it quicker, and rise up against it faster. Fascism can be fought in a decade or two, socialism can last for a century.

But I quit voting for the lesser of two weasels a long time ago. I won't be voting for either of them.

Phelps

I don't how enthused I can get about about that, but how Obama's sentiment is the equivalent of 'brownshirts' is beyond me. Been listening to Rush Limbaugh a little much lately?

The accusation's a very, very low blow, even if you don't like the guy.

Because when the Ordnertruppen started, they were "just private security." You know, concerned citizens who were there more as ushers than security. Until, of course, it became time to bust up the beer hall.

About a third of the fascist imagery is from the Obama campaign itself, and the others are just from people who think having a fascist in power would be just peachy (since of course, without a critical mass of those people, one wouldn't get elected anyways.) Take a gander at these:

http://store.barackobama.com/product_p/po26842.htm
http://store.barackobama.com/product_p/po26840.htm

And of course, there was this gem:

http://www.creativereview.co.uk/crblog/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/barack-is-hope.jpg

McCain is a dangerous populist. Obama is looking more and more like an honest to goodness fascist.

And no, I don't listen to Limbaugh. He's tedious.

Phelps

Hell, just out this morning, look at the poster at the bottom for the event in Berlin.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/berlin_event/

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